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Silbury Hill

Trespass on SSSI sites

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tjj T
tjj Sep 1, 2012 21:53:45

Oh! The Silbury thread has been locked - I thought the discussion was productive. I had something to add about 'trespass' so I'll just add it here as a little addendum (as Silbury is a SSSI).

Criminal Trespass
People who cause damage while trespassing may, in the process, commit a criminal offence
(e.g. of criminal damage of property under the Criminal Damage Act 1971) but trespass is per se not normally a criminal offence. Trespass is a criminal offence in some cases, for example on railway land or where military byelaws are in force.
Another example of criminal trespass is where land has been notified as a Site of Special Scientific Interest; a trespasser may, in the process of trespassing, commit a criminal offence under Section 28P of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, if they (without reasonable excuse):
- intentionally or recklessly destroy or damage any flora or fauna or geological or physiographical features by reason of which the land is of special interest;
- intentionally or recklessly disturb fauna; and they knew what they had destroyed, damaged or disturbed was within a SSSI. Indeed, any person, whether a trespasser or not, who intentionally causes the damage noted above is also likely to be committing a criminal offence.

S Sanctuary
Sanctuary Sep 1, 2012 22:04:02
Replying to tjj

tjj wrote:
Oh! The Silbury thread has been locked - I thought the discussion was productive. I had something to add about 'trespass' so I'll just add it here as a little addendum (as Silbury is a SSSI).

Criminal Trespass
People who cause damage while trespassing may, in the process, commit a criminal offence
(e.g. of criminal damage of property under the Criminal Damage Act 1971) but trespass is per se not normally a criminal offence. Trespass is a criminal offence in some cases, for example on railway land or where military byelaws are in force.
Another example of criminal trespass is where land has been notified as a Site of Special Scientific Interest; a trespasser may, in the process of trespassing, commit a criminal offence under Section 28P of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, if they (without reasonable
excuse):
- intentionally or recklessly destroy or damage any flora or fauna or geological or physiographical features by reason of which the land is of special interest;
- intentionally or recklessly disturb fauna; and they knew what they had destroyed, damaged or disturbed was within a SSSI. Indeed, any person, whether a trespasser or not, who intentionally causes the damage noted above is also likely to be committing a criminal offence.

You beat me to it June as I was about to post the full trespass law when the topic was locked.
The only problem I see with it if it reached the courts is that the accused would cite all the film crews and commercial enterprises that also climb the hill causing damage along the way but are welcomed with open arms when the wallets come out!

T The Eternal
The Eternal Sep 2, 2012 00:13:07
Replying to tjj

Hi June,

Thanks for re-opening the debate on Silbury Hill. I hate censorship.

I climbed up Silbury once in the mid to late 90s. Can't remember exactly when, but there was nowt to stop you then. I found it a great experience in that it gave a great view, and one that helped the viewer, me, to place Silbury within her landscape. Also, at that time, I can honestly say that I didn't notice any significant damage through people going on it. Yes, there was some flattened and worn grass, but that was it. Maybe it's different now, but I haven't set foot on it since.

On the previously locked post someone wrote: "Silbury from the top is a dreary disappointment (ask anyone who's been)". I disagree, as I have said above. If only I had been asked.

However, if it is now a tresspass offence, and against the law to climb Silbury Hill, then I will respect that. I hope there is a good reason. I can't comment on whether Silbury Hill is now being damaged by people climbing it, as I haven't been on it for years.

I know that we all love Silbury Hill, and don't want to see it damaged, but I feel that the authorities often go the wrong way about stopping people - they just rub them up the wrong way, and it ends in conflict, and some people see it as a challenge to disobey the wishes of the powers that be.

All the best,
TE.

N nigelswift
nigelswift Sep 2, 2012 05:54:14
Replying to tjj

On the old thread, someone said "you'll get people like someone who commented above wanting ALL of us to not be allowed to visit the places". If that refers to me perhaps I can make it clear on this thread I said no such thing.

(BTW, peremptorily locking the thread without obvious justification or explanation looks much the same as someone jumping the fence at Silbury - "because I can"! Ironic or what!)

S scubi63
scubi63 Sep 2, 2012 11:48:00
Replying to tjj

A nice barbed fence hidden within a good deep ring of natural thick prickly brambles and nettles will keep almost everybody off the hill.
Oh yes, and maybe a sniper hidden on Waden Hill to catch the rest ;o).

T thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat Sep 3, 2012 18:21:22
Replying to tjj

It's funny coming back after a couple of days to a locked thread. Usually that signifies major fallings-out, shouting, flouncing and handbags (and that's just from me). This time we have a thread locked when there seems to have been general agreement and consensus on a lot of points, and not even a cross word. Ha.

Anyway, very interesting post about criminal trespass. It might be worth mentioning that trespass to land (unless other offences are involved) wasn't a crime until 1994, when the much-loved Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 came into force and is still quite limited. But there is a much longer standing civil law relating to trespass (a "tort"). Here's a bit from wiki:

"Trespass to land involves the "unjustifiable interference with land which is in the immediate and exclusive possession of another". It is not necessary to prove that harm was suffered to bring a claim, and is instead actionable per se.

.....

The main element of the tort is "interference". This must be both direct and physical, with indirect interference instead being covered by negligence or nuisance. "Interference" covers any physical entry to land, as well as the abuse of a right of entry, when a person who has the right to enter the land does something not covered by the permission. If the person has the right to enter the land but remains after this right expires, this is also trespass. It is also a trespass to throw anything on the land."

So a landowner can bring a civil action for trespass, even where there isn't criminal trespass.

T thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat Sep 3, 2012 21:31:19
Replying to tjj

I've never climbed Silbury, nor do I have a burning desire to do so. But I have climbed onto the top of The Gop in North Wales, the largest artificial mound in Wales (I think). The Gop is a huge cairn, very badly damaged by antiquarian excavations into its top. But it's still huge. I imagine some people will view climbing this as being no different to Silbury, but I mention it by way of contrast (note the fieldnotes, etc).

http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/136/gop.html

T tomwatts
tomwatts Sep 6, 2012 11:18:39
Replying to tjj

...If you really, really feel an uncontrollable urge to walk where you shouldn't then why not take a tip from the Irish who process up Mount Brandon barefoot every year?...


http://www.unshod.org/ebbfhike/bfhik101.htm

S Sanctuary
Sanctuary Sep 7, 2012 10:59:21
Replying to tjj

tjj wrote:
Oh! The Silbury thread has been locked - I thought the discussion was productive. I had something to add about 'trespass' so I'll just add it here as a little addendum (as Silbury is a SSSI).

Criminal Trespass
People who cause damage while trespassing may, in the process, commit a criminal offence
(e.g. of criminal damage of property under the Criminal Damage Act 1971) but trespass is per se not normally a criminal offence. Trespass is a criminal offence in some cases, for example on railway land or where military byelaws are in force.
Another example of criminal trespass is where land has been notified as a Site of Special Scientific Interest; a trespasser may, in the process of trespassing, commit a criminal offence under Section 28P of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, if they (without reasonable excuse):
- intentionally or recklessly destroy or damage any flora or fauna or geological or physiographical features by reason of which the land is of special interest;
- intentionally or recklessly disturb fauna; and they knew what they had destroyed, damaged or disturbed was within a SSSI. Indeed, any person, whether a trespasser or not, who intentionally causes the damage noted above is also likely to be committing a criminal offence.

My, my, my haven't you all been busy while I've been away for a few days!! I bet June never dreamt for one minute that the resurrected thread would create so much drama!
I've waded through a few and I have to say well done to all for the way you have conducted yourselves (no patronising intended or meant) which is a tremendous breakthrough considering the problems we encountered a year or so ago. We are all like-minded folk with the same aims albeit sometimes achieved in slightly different ways. We must all accept each other for what we are and enjoy this wonderful hobby of ours. Onward and upward :-)

T The Eternal
The Eternal Sep 8, 2012 23:47:59
Replying to tjj

June,

Little did you know that when you started this thread, that it would be the one thread that resulted in so much wobbly tree sort of stuff.

Just open it and see how it goes from side to side like a big wavey thing. I've not seen owt like that before, me.

Brill,
TE. :)

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