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Silbaby

Silbaby -a plea.

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IMHO, something needs to be done urgently.

The problem is that nobody in the establishment has expressed the opinion that it's anything in particular. On the other hand, they haven't said the reverse. The most we have is that David Field says it's conical like some R*man stuff he's seen. Well, it's also conical like a certain artificial mound within sight of it, and if you cut and paste Silbaby onto the top of that you'll see the match is perfect and the angle of the slopes are absolutely identical (not to mention that it's dead in line with Silbury and the Sanctuary, that you can see both from on top, that it has a "moat" with a spring in it and in my opinion it is multi-faceted with the same number of faces as Silbury. I also think there's the suspicion that the line of the Roman road is designed to miss it, like Silbury.

But maybe it IS Roman. Or whatever. So what, it hardly deserves what's happening. For certain, it's very old, and very artificial. Pete has a fantastic aerial photo, can't remember if he's posted it here, and that leaves zero room for doubt, IMO.

So my feeling is this. It's something important. It's being wrecked (not just recently, the same thing happened last year and in previous years and each new layer of rubbish gets incorporated in the profile – there are numbers of quite old bottles in the slopes on the right as well as the left). Yet the protection system is ignoring it, it's slipping through the net, no-one wants to risk ridicule by backing a potential donkey.

We're the only one's expressing concern. Pete's the only one doing anything – how mad is that, in the middle of a World Heritage Site? And what's the best we can hope for? The water authority will ask the owner to ensure it stops, and will ask him to clear it. Will that happen, how much will it cost, how long will it take and how many more fly-tippers will be attracted there in the meantime?

No-one's to blame, it's no-one's responsibility (except maybe the WHS and they'll take forever) and no-one wants to get pro-active in case it's a "nothing" site, and they'll look stupid.

But there's a finite risk that it's a highly important site, and history will record that the Silbury fiasco wasn't the only one.

Personally, I think both HA and TMA should do something, despite the risk of looking stupid. Apart from blocking the access and clearing the rubble I reckon the authorities should risk a few quid in taking a core to establish what this place is. If it's significant, then proper protection can be put in place, and if it isn't then fair enough, the money will be wasted. The ONLY way they can argue against that, IMO, is by telling us straight out that it's not an important site.

So, my personal view would be
(a.) HA should feature Silbaby and write to the appropriate bodies.
(b.) TMA should feature Silbaby, despite the uncertainty surrounding it.

A depressing up-date from Pete who says that tons of fly-tipping rubbish has newly appeared....Grrrr :(

I don't think there's anything wrong with us saying - look at this, look at it's position relative to other sites and whatdya think? Open the debate! Like you say, nige, we have a duty to in case it IS something. And if its isn't, then we did the right thing, didn't we? and got people talking and thinking. (I've long given up caring about 'looking stupid'.)

J
x

The first call should probably be to Mr Fitzpatrick. If the alignments show clearly on a map then those are sufficient grounds for considering it prehistoric.

If its fly-tipping shouldn't the appropriate department be contacted at (is it?) Kennet District Council? And as its on a WHS also the WHS officer whose email contact is on the Kennet DC website?

If it's "adopted" by HA why not set up a page with a Paypal link were people could make a donation - how much would taking a core cost?

If you want a supportive opinion, Nigel -

I think you (or someone) should just add Silbaby as a site. Then all the photos, comments and forum threads can be collected together for easy access.

After all. I know we don't want loads of 'possibles' on TMA but this one has already been debated by people on here who clearly have detailed local knowledge of the area, and who don't routinely suggest every molehill in the landscape as a Genuine Prehistoric Site.

So just do it (I say).
Modern Antiquarians are allowed to (re)discover things.

I've suggested to Pete that the meeting at Avebury should include another site assessment. However, that is several weeks away, what is to stop more tipping in the meantime? It will be interesting to know what Kennet Council's response will be.

Nigel,

Thanks for putting the new Silbaby site up. Now I know where the blessed thing is! Can I make a couple of suggestions though.

I'd have thought the speech-marks around the site name could be dropped. There are plenty of sites with 'made up' names on TMA without 'em.

Also, you wrote,

"It's not modern, and apparently artificial, but that's as far as it seems safe to go."

I'd have thought...

"It's not thought to be modern, and is apparently artificial (but that's as far as it seems safe to go)."

...might be a safer bet.

K x

Circumstantial, but looking at Jimit's map showing the Silbury-Sanctuary alignment, another possible alignment presented itself: Falkner's - Silbaby - WKLB.

I checked this on Magic, the results can be seen on my alternate weblog at http://megmumble.blogspot.com

Any thoughts? Could this lend weight to any arguments for the site being of importance?

Just thinking....

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/FileStore/archaeology/aerial_survey/NMP_Projects/Avebury/WestKennet500.gif

What about Silbaby in relation to these? By my reckoning it would be about a quarter of the way in at the top of the picture?

Has anyone read Whittle's 'Sacred Mound, Holy Rings'? I just wondered if that would have anything useful in, as it's about Silbury and the enclosures (and Silbaby being between the two...)

Why not hire a skip and go down and clear away the mess?

Make a big deal about it to the press - "we have lost patience it is obvious that care is a lip service only round here" while you are on you can also say that we even think the hill is an ancient monument, say we approached EH about it and they did not seem interested etc.

At the same time put in a lottery grant application for a range of non intrusive investigations to take place and for some signage.

I take it we have asked EH if they know anything about it?

Someone from the council visited the site and confirmed there is recent fly tipping but thinks that it has been done by the landowner so nothing can be done.
They think it unlikely that there is any contamination but will keep an eye on it.
PeteG

WK palisaded enclosures; post 33349. If I was a betting person, I'd say that silbaby comes from the saxon period. Some clues, near to a manor complex, which mostly go back to anglo saxon land boundaries. Its also bounded by a roman road, which I believe kinks in somewhere round here away from the modern road...... and according to my Andrew and Dury map, was'nt there a mill down the road at Overton. All signs of a continuous settlement pattern; there again could be completely wrong.
Moss