Castlerigg desecration and vandalism | Forum

M

moss Jul 9, 2008 07:31:32

Replying to theCaptain

theCaptain wrote:

Thought I'd mention here that I witnessed first hand what I considered to be utterly disgraceful scenes at Castlerigg Sunday 29th June, with several people there with a couple of "colourful" characters from (I believe) Guatemala, who proceeded to dig a pit and start a fire in the centre of the circle as part of some sort of "ceremony".

Since I posted a picture of the turf digging on the megalithic portal, it seems to be all kicking off,

See http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=42 and
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=40273

I think that the liverpool holistic circle may start to regret their actions.

Its a bit much that our sites are being desecrated by people from another country, how would they feel if we did the same in their country I wonder.
The people to blame in all this are those that organised such a stupid ceremony in the middle of one of the most beautiful stone circles in this country. Goodwill tour fine, but lighting fires is tantamount to vandalism and is definitely illegal at scheduled ancient monuments.

C

Cursuswalker Jul 9, 2008 12:52:34

Replying to theCaptain

Hi all. I'm back after a period of ill health.

The Druid Network are all over this. Does anyone know if these morons have been reported to EH?

C

Creyr Jul 9, 2008 21:17:39

Replying to theCaptain

I happened to be there and saw some of what happened and was standing in the right place to overhear alot of the discussion prior to the fire.

The Guatamalan dude is called Tata Pedro Cruz.
The fire ceremony was supposed to be held in the adjoining field - owned by the friendly farmer who was hanging out with the celebrants. It was all set to go ahead there but when TPC arrived at the circle he saw that there was a loosely replaced circle of turf over fire damage allready in the centre of the circle. I saw this and assumed that the solstice goers had had a fire there a few days earlier. TPC stated the fire ceremony was "meant" to happen right there. I heard the discussion with the farmer. He seemed unsettled by the change of plan but when pressed he said that he personally had no objections to it going ahead there but that the owners probably wouldn't approve.

The really unsettling thing was that the circle of hangers on all went into this "Yeah we all know what this place is Really for. We are doing what you're Meant to do here." Absolutely disgusting attitude.

We went back later to check out the damage and the turf was replaced but it looked badly done.

So a few points. -
-Fire damage was not entirely caused by this event, as it was built on existing fire damage.
-The organisers had not intended the ceremony to be there but seemed to get carried along by the word of the leader and the pack mentality.
-Lighting fires creates a precedent and people think that if someone else has had one then its ok.

This was a tricky thing to witness. I felt it was absolutley not ok, but also felt intimidated by the pack mentality of these allegedly harmoniously inclined new-agers. And to be honest I found their attitude of we are the special ones and we can do what the f*** we want far more worrying than the damage to the site.

T

The Eternal Jul 12, 2008 22:17:29

Replying to theCaptain

theCaptain.
Why don't you just report the tw@ts to the relevent authorities. Personally, I'd rip their b0llocks out by the roots. The smug looking cvnt seemingly ignoring the complete b@stard riping out the turf needs shooting. Why is it that @rseholes like that get away with it? Oooh, the poor little things don't understand our ways. Simple, treat them like we'd be treated in their country.
Non-politically correctly yours
and if you don't like it, stuff it.
TE.

T

TenPin Jul 13, 2008 06:53:14

Replying to theCaptain

Though I don't condone any sort of vandalistic behaviour whatsoever (and in my opinion, should not go unpunished), it still makes me chuckle when all you so called earth children constantly moan about the number of "Tourists" visiting this sacred site. Or any sacred site, for that matter. I have read many of your blogs and am amused by the number of you complaining that there were too many people there.
Don't you realise that all of you are "Tourists" to somebody else? It's just a matter of perception.These wonderful stone circles have all been bequeathed to us all by our far-seeing ancestors and therefore should be accessible to and enjoyed by all. To claim exclusivity just because you are 'in tune' with ancient sites is a bit xenophobic/fascist/narrow minded/selfish, (delete where applicable) in the extreme. Thatcher and the police managed to do a good job of that at Stonehenge in the early eighties. I know, I was there when Hawkwind last did their cosmic thing at the stones and there were rumours abound of Bob Dylan making an appearance. Somebody referred to him as "The New Messiah"! Yeah right!
C'mon guys, just be the wonderful, tolerant, accepting,loving and peaceable beings our ancestors would have wanted you to be. Show the world that you are not just a bunch of unkempt, smelly hippie types and get with the program and embrace anyone who is interested in these sites. Recruit them so we have even more people to look after them so that our future offspring can also enjoy them ad infinitum.
Peace to you all.

T

TMA Ed Jul 14, 2008 16:34:18

Replying to theCaptain

We today had an email from the Liverpool Holisitic Circle, wishing to distance themselves from the actions that took place at Castlerigg. From their email they make it clear that the talk they hosted for Tata Pedro Cruz was but one stop on his tour of the UK, and they had nothing to do with any of his other activities while in the country, including his visit to Castlerigg.

We include text from their email below:

-------------------------

We have today been informed that a forum on your Head Heritage website contains inaccurate information and unfounded allegations about Liverpool Holistic Circle and its supposed involvement in an event at Castlerigg on 29th June 2008. We have received a spate of vicious and abusive emails which we understand to have been prompted by this information published on your website.

Please note the following:

*Liverpool Holistic Circle did not organise an event at Castlerigg on 29th June 2008 or on any other occasion. All Liverpool Holistic Circle meetings take place at the Rosicrucian Chapter building in Liverpool. No representative of Liverpool Holistic Circle was present at Castlerigg on 29th June.

*Liverpool Holistic Circle hosted a talk by Tata Pedro Cruz on the evening of 24th June 2008. This was the only event in Tata Pedro's schedule which was organised by Liverpool Holistic Circle.

*The full schedule of events for Tata Pedro's visit to England was published on the Liverpool Holistic Circle website, in a document sent to us by Unification Maya. This was in accordance with our customary practice of displaying information about events organised by people who have contributed to our programme, or other events which we feel may be of interest to visitors to the website, as a service to both past speakers and the public. Notice that the one event for Liverpool Holistic Circle is clearly identified, and that other contact details are given for other events in the schedule.

*One of the events listed was, "Sun 29th Jun, Trip to Lake District, Castlerigg Stone Circle". Please notice that nowhere in this document is a Fire Ceremony at Castlerigg mentioned or advertised.

*We understand that information about Tata Pedro's visit to Castlerigg was circulated by a local Cumbrian holistic group or network. Liverpool Holistic Circle has no connection, past or present, with this group or network.

R

rockartwolf Jul 15, 2008 21:38:22

Replying to theCaptain

This is perhaps a way of lighting the centre of the circle without the use of fire.

http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/69109/castlerigg.html

N

nigelswift Jul 16, 2008 07:26:37

Replying to theCaptain

When most people think of fires at ancient sites they think of chavs, hippies or occasional ceremonies imported from Guatemala.

However, it has transpired that certain Druids carry out fire ceremonies. Admittedly they recommend putting the fire in a brazier, not on the ground, but the two main Charters on how to behave at sites say no fires at all, for good reasons.

I guess some sort of long tradition or justification can be claimed for leaving offerings, but lighting fires? Isn't it an entirely concocted modern conceit and shouldn't they desist?