Welsh King making Stone | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

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Rhiannon Jan 16, 2010 00:36:05

Replying to cerrig

Perhaps the Welsh don't have the mentality of wanting to be told what to do by one person?!

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tjj Jan 16, 2010 00:41:01

Replying to cerrig

cerrig wrote:

Ireland has it's Lia fail,Scotland/England has the Stone of Scone,but Wales doesn't seem to have an equivalent. I did read somewhere once about a legend of a welsh stone that " contained all the knowledge needed to rule Wales". I don't remember where i saw it and i was wondering if anyone on here might know anything about it ,or anything concerning a welsh "King making " stone.

I wondered if it is a reference to the King Arthur legend and the 'king making' stone (sword in the stone). I have often seen Guinevere spelt Gwenhwyfar which is a Welsh spelling of the name.

tjj

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moss Jan 16, 2010 12:21:11

Replying to cerrig

cerrig wrote:

Ireland has it's Lia fail,Scotland/England has the Stone of Scone,but Wales doesn't seem to have an equivalent. I did read somewhere once about a legend of a welsh stone that " contained all the knowledge needed to rule Wales". I don't remember where i saw it and i was wondering if anyone on here might know anything about it ,or anything concerning a welsh "King making " stone.

Hi Cerrig,

It could be the founding myth story of Cymru/Wales, when Vortigen tried to build a house/royal residence on top of Dinas Emrys, and the building always collapsed because of the stone foundations which kept sinking into the earth every day. The reason was of course was that they were over the pool with the two fighting dragons. Rhiannon gives the full story here....
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/6257/dinas_emrys.html
Wales has never had a reigning king, just lots of little kingdoms....

W

wideford Jan 16, 2010 17:49:29

Replying to cerrig

there are those who say that the Scone stone is actually Lia Fail, brought over by the Irish settlers. Leaving the invaders aside there has only ever been one king of the whole of Ireland, Brian Boroimhe [pronounced Boru], as the King of All Ireland didn't rule the northern corner.
Regarding the Welsh kingdoms mentioned these are really sub-kingdoms of the South Welsh as historically you also had the North Welsh [last known as Yr Golledd in what is now The Borders] of northern Britain and the West Welsh in what we still cal the West Country. The East Anglian knigs it is now thought could have been Britons, giving us an East Welsh lost to the Romans. On analogy with Erin there may [according to me alone AFAIK] have been a central Wales from which overlords such as Vortigernos and Arthur came.

T

thesweetcheat Jan 17, 2010 00:21:09

Replying to cerrig

Of course, some of the ancient Welsh kingdoms are now lost beneath the waves:

- Cantre'r Gwaelod (the Lowland Hundred) in Cardigan Bay, once the kingdom of King Gwynddno Garanhir of Cardigan. Susan Cooper's Silver On The Tree makes great use of the "Lost Land" and King Gwynddno in his glass castle at Caer Wydr.

- Llys Helig, the Palace of Helig ap Glannowg in Conwy Bay. Apparently Helig's lands were drowned as judgement for the crimes of his ancestors.